Stripe’s Rami Banna on the Future of Commerce

Rob Goodman:

Hi everyone, and welcome Now What?, the podcast from Wix about how technology is changing…everything. I'm your host, Rob Goodman, and in this series we're talking all about evolution in business, design, development and beyond. Over the past couple of years, business and creative leaders have had to evolve to meet the challenges that come with this overwhelming amount of change. Here at Wix we're interested in ways the creative people are evolving to build new businesses, grow beyond their limits and shape the future of the web. So, we thought: what if we got a bunch of our friends together, leaders in design, development, eCommerce and the agency world to talk about how they're dealing with all this change and how it's affecting their careers, teams and industries. This is a place for you to prepare for tomorrow's ever-changing world and apply those lessons today.

Rob Goodman:

In this new season of the show we're diving into customer experience. As the world has rapidly transformed, customer's expectations, behavior and needs have adapted with it. Paired with the emergence of new forms of social media, digital currency, the metaverse and so much more, navigating what this means for you and your organization can be a lot. So, we're bringing you fresh interviews and new insights from leaders that are reshaping business today to better prepare you for what's ahead.

Rob Goodman:

In this episode, we have Rami Banna, Product Lead at Stripe for commerce. Stripe is a payments infrastructure for the internet, powering millions of companies of all sizes that use Stripe software and APIs to accept payments, send payouts and manage their businesses online. Our very own Wix platform integrates with Stripe too. Stripe was just named by Fast Company as the #1 innovative company for 2022 for their work to kickstart the carbon removal industry to protect our environment. Rami has such a unique and diverse background as a product leader, spanning semiconductors, medical devices, web search and content creation. He previously led product teams at Google and was the Principal Architect at Cochlear Hearing Implants. Rami and I chat about the future of eCommerce, how the coming ubiquity of purchase across chat, social, web, mobile, IRL and beyond will vastly evolve the traditional customer experience and some valuable lessons on leading product teams too. From what's next at brick-and-mortar to virtual goods and digital money in the metaverse, there's something for everyone in my chat with Rami Banna from Stripe. So let's get started.

Rob Goodman:

Welcome to the show, Rami.

Rami Banna:

Thank you very much for having me, Rob.

Rob Goodman:

So I want to start off with kind of a big question, but I feel like you're the person to ask. What does the future of eCommerce look like from your vantage point?

Rami Banna:

Well, the future of eCommerce is we're only just getting started. I think no matter how much the last two years have been this incredible accelerant, this fuel on the fire that has been in the eCommerce train, to mix analogies as poorly as possible, only 14% of global commerce is currently done online. The entire space is in hypergrowth from an innovation point of view, across every part of the stack. And you're seeing more and more countries, more and more markets adopt it, the penetration in the U.S. and the U.K. kind of leading. But the world is only just starting to take on eCommerce and wake up to its possibilities. Ultimately, from our point of view, eCommerce isn't just about online. It is commerce. Digital-first will be the future of commerce across the board, whether you're in-store or you're browsing on your phone on the web or any particular channel. So we can go into any part of it, but it is only just the beginning.

Rob Goodman:

Stripe is this, like, invisible layer, which is something I love about Stripe. It's not physical. You don't really interface with it. It's just behind the scenes making everything run smoother and better and frictionless. When you think about the future vision of payments for Stripe specifically, we're just moving a couple days past this big announcement with Apple that you're going to fuel these contactless payments through the Apple device and merchants. So when you think about the future of how Stripe integrates with payments across the World Wide Web, where is it headed?

Rami Banna:

Well, Stripe's mission is to grow the GDP of the internet. It's not a small mission. It's not something that's accomplished in a year and we're barely just starting to scratch the surface. But if that's our mission, then you can only imagine where we're starting to dig deeper, grow wider and make that invisible layer of infrastructure really have the traction. So things you may not be aware of, over 80% of American adults would've interacted and paid with Stripe, and this is an outdated stat from a couple of years ago. This is the pervasive payment infrastructure across the internet, not just in the U.S., but also globally – 46 countries. You can set Stripe up as a business. You can pay with Stripe at 195 countries. You can even start up a business through something like Stripe Atlas in 140 countries today. That's kind of talking about it as a business.

Rami Banna:

Over 75% of the world's leading marketplaces, including digital natives like Mindbody, Lightspeed, Wix itself in fact is included, or innovative enterprises like Walgreens, Nando's or Highgroves and Lansdownes, some of the largest enterprises on the planet, 75% of those marketplaces are with Stripe. This is a layer that's not only invisible to the consumer, pervasive across internet commerce and digital commerce globally, but it's also a kind of a platform-of-platforms enabling new business models, enabling the future of online/offline/omnichannel. And it's doing it at an accelerating rate.

Rob Goodman:

Amazing. When you describe that invisible layer of Stripe and just fueling, I mean, not even enormous amounts, fueling the majority of what is happening in transactions on the web, how is it making life easier for customers and consumers? And in the long-term, what are you envisioning as the benefits for both everyday people who are shopping and also for the store owners?

Rami Banna:

We see ourselves as an enabler, as an enabler of commerce that would not otherwise have happened, as an enabler of transactions that would not otherwise have taken place. So as a consumer, you experience it through purchase experience, you experience it through the speed of payments, authorization. The local payment methods that you'll find in various countries, like iDEAL if you're in the Netherlands, or in other places you'll experience by having more opportunities to buy from businesses and people who would not have otherwise been selling, right? So just the very fact of having something that makes going online and doing business faster means that you have the opportunity to purchase and to experience new products that you would not otherwise have. Ultimately, you'll experience it as a world-first digital experience. You'll be able to purchase globally. As I say, we're early in this phase, but you'll be able to purchase from anywhere in the world online on your phone and any other purchasing channel.

Rami Banna:

It's that sort of enabling of new experiences and new opportunities for commerce is how you'll experience it. You won't see Stripe written anywhere necessarily, on some products. You may well on some of our hosted surfaces, but just that pervasiveness is how you'll experience the things that Stripe has enabled. We're seeing the ubiquity of payment methods and payment itself is one of the big future stories of eCommerce. So we talk a lot about omnichannel, and perhaps it's a slightly outdated word. It tends to mean physical and digital coming together. But in reality, modern omnichannel is about the total ubiquity and pervasiveness of payment opportunities and purchases, be it in your chat or through a QR code or through social commerce or on the website itself. Or in fact the physical place where you do go perhaps to purchase or experience a product, you'll still purchase it through your phone or through a digital-first experience.

Rami Banna:

I think that kind of concept of ubiquity of payments and pushing up the purchase to as close as possible to the discovery and the decision-making process, wherever you are making discovery and where you're making a decision process, that's the real power of this infrastructure layer becoming so scalable and so pervasive. The traditional idea of going through a funnel on someone's piece of real estate and that's the only place where you can go through the whole thing, I think that absolutely continues to innovate and become more performant and turbocharge. There's lots of technology there, but that is only one piece of the story. And only one piece of where Stripe touches.

Rob Goodman:

I love the idea of basically going in every direction, every channel that people are communicating, where people are discovering. I want to ask kind of both about where you think brick-and-mortar commerce is going, and you talked about that transactions are going to happen more and more digitally in the store. But how do you see that connection evolving both in terms of digital to physical, but also the digital experience in a physical location. And then I also want to ask on the complete other side of the spectrum about social, and I think about TikTok and Instagram and all of these platforms that people are discovering and purchasing. And thinking about the metaverse and what's happening there and crypto and coins and digital goods. So kind of a two part question that is in complete polar opposites of each other, but Rami, I feel like you are the person to answer this one.

Rami Banna:

Just covering the full spectrum from physical to the metaphysical. So let's think. So from a physical point of view, I'm very convinced everything is digital-first. And by that, I mean the incorporation of your company, the testing of your product, the experimentation with your business model, it has never been easier to start selling products and finding an audience and a market for your products than it has been today. And to do that online, it only gets easier and easier. Before you set up a physical presence, you are going to set up an online presence and test it out first, and the physical presence will follow. I think we've already seen that trend through the DTC movement and a lot of the big players there. I think the actual merging of the physical and digital is a very logical conclusion from that. If you've set up your business online and your consumers can purchase on the phone, then that's exactly how they'll continue to do it. And the shop will become more experiential, more of a fulfillment center as much as anything else. Things like pay online and pick up in-store.

Rami Banna:

So your infrastructure needs to be so well integrated between your shops and your fulfillment centers, where the inventory is, and it passes really seamlessly. I think the physical stores become an extension of the digital store, not the other way around. I think that's kind of the clear, clear story. And obviously, it's not in every single segment. It's not for the dentist. It's not necessarily for the cafes, but it's in a lot of verticals across the board.

Rob Goodman:

I'm finding my own experience as a digital shopper and a fan of going into stores that a lot of the customer and consumer experience can happen in a physical space or with direct relationships with folks who are at stores, but that commerce part of it, the ordering, the fulfillment, the transaction, yes, make that simple, make that more fluid. But the people part and the experience part, either going on and trying on, or having an expert at the store who's local to you, and you can speak with one on one or get advice from, it feels like that is kind of a next evolution of what you're describing as well.

Rami Banna:

Yeah, absolutely. And in many ways, it's about having that people experience, particularly the live commerce, bringing that people experience at scale. It's why you have influences talking you through the product, unboxing, working through how the product works, whether it's makeup or a shoe, showing you all the angles. It's why you have live Q&A so you can – it's essentially a decentralized or franchise kind of shop assistant model, but en masse for brands. So I think you'll find every part of the physical experience has been replicated. If it's not enhanced, there's no point in doing it. So the payment processes have gone much faster online, the discovery and the shopping and the rapid kind of search online is much faster than walking through stores. The personalization and the targeting, all of that is much better discovery. And so anything that's been optimized kind of has trended to.

Rami Banna:

And so now you're seeing more parts of the funnel kind of improved. So in the discovery part of the funnel, certainly you're seeing a lot of the social commerce pieces in your decision part of the funnel, but your kind of consideration – that's where you're seeing exactly this chat around trying something on, comparing things, talking with a shop assistant, hang on a minute, try another brand altogether. These are things that kind of digital experiences replicate and do incredibly well. And similarly in the post-purchase part of the funnel where returns or dropping something off, and there's a huge amount of activity there in making the ability to buy online with confidence knowing that if you get it wrong, it's free, it's easy and I can very quickly get an instant credit and repurchase and get the right size. That's the classic retail problem.

Rami Banna:

So there's a lot of innovation there with our partners and people who use Stripe, users on Stripe in that return space, making it with the same level of confidence that if you had to try indoors. And it's a full fintech and reverse fulfillment challenge. There's a lot of really interesting integration that happens there in that ecosystem. And you're going to see more and more of that – people picking up from your house and reverse logistics being first mile, last mile, local drop offs. You're seeing that actually with the physical store. So your question about how the online and physical stores interact – what you're seeing as well is those who have a huge physical footprint already. The retailers are turning themselves into a marketplace and they're turning themselves into an online marketplace because they have the foot traffic through their stores, both physically and digitally. And they're using that footprint as well for that reverse fulfillment story.

Rami Banna:

So now you have partnerships with various big retailers for your drop off, and it's free dropoff to be able to exchange the size 10 shoes for the size of 11 shoes that you should have gotten and so on. So there's a really interesting kind of sliding of scales where, okay, as things get displaced, innovation kind of keeps moving. So those who have the huge advantage in a physical footprint, well and truly kind of expanding and using eCommerce and the infrastructure in fact such as marketplaces to expand their capabilities at the same time. There is no shortage of innovation at that end of the physical store. The physical store is not dead. It'll keep reinvigorating in many ways.

Rob Goodman:

That's amazing. There's this, I think it's an online retailer called The Black Tux or The Black Tuxedo. I saw them online and then I was at a Nordstrom and they had a little boutique there. So I ended up buying it in the store, having them ship it to me. It's not the right thing so I have to send it back. I was trying to figure out how to send it back and then it's very clearly stated in the package all you had to do was rip off the UPS label that it came with and underneath it on the box was the return label on it. It was like the most seamless, simple thing I'd ever experienced. That's an example of the logistics meets the online/in-store kind of cross connect that makes a good customer experience happen.

Rami Banna:

Brilliant. I mean, we're standing on the shoulders of giants here. Last 20 years of eCommerce growth, folks like Amazon, the data, the tech model for approaching physical commerce has been applied in a digital way and all the additional data that starts showing you where the dropoff is in the funnel. The industry's been working systematically from inside out. Where are the problems? What's the best opportunity now? Where in the funnel can we attack next? And things like reverse logistics to give you confidence in that retail part of it. The sorts of impact that you see around instant credit, just the fact of being able to say, "You've hit return. Before we've even received the wrong size shoe we will give you credit to buy the next one so you don't have to wait and drop off." And you see this huge uplift in not just repurchase, but in fact, uplift in average order value because you kind of get this customer loyalty story happening.

Rami Banna:

That's a whole another trend by the way, the customer loyalty and re-engagement trend, be its loyalty points, wallets, kind of capturing value, gift cards and being able to distribute gift cards faster and easier. There's a huge story across the customer life cycle and being able to power that with data and personalization and great products that have almost become table stakes as we know them today, but enabling those for anyone. For a marketplace to have a gift card, those sorts of things are kind of really, really important and increasingly so in a world where you can touch your user and your customer across so many different channels.

Rob Goodman:

Stripe is powering many of those experiences. And when you said instant credit, do you mean like a credit back if you need a refund instantly?

Rami Banna:

Yeah, so a provider like Returnly who, as soon as you hit on the portal, on the customer portal, you hit the return, "I'd like to return this size 10 shoe," they'll say, "Absolutely, here's an instant credit to purchase the one that you want so you can go back in the store and do what you need to do to get the right one. In the meantime, process the returns this way." It's kind of fintech, right? They're taking certain liability around the likelihood of that return coming in, giving you that credit and making it work. So it's kind of lubricating and making every part of the journey as frictionless as possible. And knowing exactly where the drop-offs are, the industry's really worked out where to invest and where to innovate and where to make these things seamless.

Rob Goodman:

Hey, everyone, I'm excited to tell you about Wix eCommerce, the complete solution for starting a business, moving your store online or for bigger brands already earning millions in annual revenue. You can create your own store or bring over an existing one using one of our over 500 beautifully designed store templates, or build your own customized shopping experience from the ground up with our developer tools. Wix eCommerce gives you the ability to extend your reach with multichannel sales, including online and mobile store fronts, brick-and-mortar point of sale, Facebook, eBay, Instagram, Wish and Amazon Shops. Trusted by over 700,000 online stores, Wix eCommerce lets you sell everywhere while managing everything from a single place. Track inventory or source goods from suppliers, define shipping rules and automate your taxes for every sale, accept secure payments with the Wix Payments solution or choose from a global network of providers, including Stripe, MasterCard, PayPal and Klarna.

Rob Goodman:

You can count on your site and business running seamlessly with Wix's industry leading 99.98% uptime. So you can spend your time growing your business as you process record traffic in sales. There's so much more you can do with Wix eCommerce. Get started at wix.com/ecommerce. That's wix.com/ecommerce. Now, let's get back to the show.

Rob Goodman:

Let's talk about the other side of things. Crypto, digital coins, digital wallets, metaverse – does that seem like a hurdle when you think about eCommerce and payments? Does it just seem like another door, another stage to roll out seamless transactions? Where are you thinking in terms of... I know we're talking about digital commerce, but now we're talking about digital goods and digital money.

Rami Banna:

Yeah. Virtual goods, digital money, the whole thing. So Christmas recently, I bought my niece some V-Bucks for Fortnite. It turns out you still have to go on a website and enter in your credit card and buy those V-Bucks. The same thing with Robux and any other metaverse ecosystems out there, the great gaming giants and these incredible platforms that have millions and millions of people at the same time buying virtual goods and buying skins. I don't know if you've seen the Superman skins or some of these incredible Marvel skins that you can do in Fortnite now. There's some incredible stuff. Money's being exchanged for goods and services. In this case, it's a digital skin for my character to look like a comic book hero. That is already happening. That's already being powered and it's being powered by traditional payments, but then once you're in the ecosystem, once you're in that world, there's exchange of goods and services in its own terms.

Rami Banna:

So the kind of term we use here is on-ramps and off ramps. So coming from kind of current currency that you have in your bank account today, being able to purchase the virtual goods, the virtual currency for the metaverse or whatever ecosystem that is. And then again, being able to take it off. And that kind of layer of infrastructure for the internet is again, very, very immature. Be it for gaming or for cryptocurrencies and web 3.0, there is a lot to be done to develop really, really robust on-ramps and off ramps and infrastructure that allows more and more users. And by users I mean developers, apps, businesses, business models to turbocharge either ecosystem.

Rob Goodman:

So a lot of our listeners, they're running big companies, they may be running major eCommerce, or they may be in businesses-leading teams that are touching on eCommerce initiatives. I'm really curious more from a practical standpoint about the most important things for eCommerce businesses to really take advantage of this moment, both the shifts in customer behavior, because of the pandemic, in all of these technology gains, both from the selling perspective and that omnichannel standpoint. What are the things that people probably have been doing for the past six to 12 months, but they have to make these giant leaps forward in the next year to come?

Rami Banna:

Yeah, it's a big question. It really is dependent on who you are and where you are in the lifecycle. So if you are early and contemplating getting into business, it's never been easier to get started. It's never been easier to find a buyer for your product globally, and it's never been easier to scale. So if you are early in your lifecycle and you are thinking that there's something here, you've found product-market fit in any one market, setting yourself up to scale is one of the greatest things I think in the last five, 10 years, the innovation in the stacks and the platforms that are enabling. And there are large platforms that have given you the full stack of all of the kind of bells and whistles and loyalty and retention and all of the sorts of capabilities that used to be so, so costly years ago. And now all available at your fingertips. It's very easy to experiment. And then very simply you can get going and you can layer on flexibility over time.

Rami Banna:

If you are kind of at the larger end or the mid-market, there the infrastructure becomes so, so important. There's a saying in eCommerce that eCommerce is a game of integration. The more you can be thoughtful about your integration pathways and the infrastructure that you get started with, because that becomes both a lightning rod for what you can do going forward and also potential ball and chain, so being really thoughtful about how you get set up your data models, the standardization around your core kind of parts of the stack. The biggest thing I think for us as we think about commerce and what we can enable infrastructure-wise is just how global commerce can be today in 2022. There's more and more users kind of waking up to that and taking advantage of it, but the more the infrastructure supports it. And I don't just mean, kind of, Forex and multi-currency exchange easily cross borders. I also mean merchant of record and being able to land in a brand new market if you're a physical goods provider, and having a fulfillment integration with someone local literally being able to sell the next week.

Rami Banna:

Those sorts of genuine globalization landing in new markets and opening up those customers for you, it is very much happening. Being set up for that infrastructure and for the scale and for the potential of a global ecosystem is really, really important. I think we're seeing that very much. We're seeing the demand from our users and we are setting up for a global footprint from the start.

Rob Goodman:

You've had an incredible career. You were last at Google, you were at Cochlear Implants for many years, making award-winning products, Telstra, which is one of the giant telecom companies in the globe. And now you're focusing on payments. I'm really curious from a leadership standpoint about your perspective on developing product, what you've learned about kind of crossing over genres and boundaries and what it's like to lead the team that you're in charge of right now.

Rami Banna:

Yeah, you may have noticed I am not an API eCommerce or payments guru from the start. It's only recently that I've joined. And in fact, because of what I've seen in the ecosystem and where I've seen kind of the ads economy of the past 20 years and the future of payments, micro payments and all of the things in the future is what really motivated me to join this space. Coming from semiconductors to begin with, into telecoms, into medical devices, to UGC and content creation in Google and now in this payments, commerce and API space, there's not a whole lot of commonality other than product is about satisfying user need. And ultimately the product craft and the discipline and the process, as long as you're in love with the problem and you're in love with the customer and the user that you're trying to satisfy, the process kind of speaks for itself. The transferability as a product manager, and it's a kind of a bit of a trope, I guess, in tech, but the notion is that you can have product management skills that are transferable across the board, right?

Rami Banna:

Now, I wasn't always a product manager. I started off as an engineer. But I think that's very true with, I believe an advantage if you have gone across disciplines, across domains and across these different types of industries, because you can see the commonalities, you can see some patterns and hopefully bring about some of the kind of interesting innovation that you see in one area and port it over to another. So I kind of have, most recently, a consumer background. It's working a lot with content creation and in Google search. So I'm seeing some of those patterns and being able to apply some of the similar sort of thinking across in commerce, both at the top of the funnel and all the way through the developer process as well.

Rami Banna:

For me, where I'm at now is really almost pure play product management in a sense. You're able to articulate specific user needs of a very specific sub-segment and focus on them. You really have to do that product work. The irony, I think for those who aren't in product, is B2C tends to be about data and B2B tends to be about people. I think that's the kind of mismatch and the different types of product work that you do. So I'm really, really enjoying the kind of mental models, the foreignness, the real deep thinking about user needs and segmentation. And ultimately when you're B2B, when someone tells you they want it, a developer or a business is telling you they want it, you know they want it, right? There's no second guessing. There's no psychology of "Hang on a minute. They don't know what it is. You haven't told them exactly what's going on. You can't predict future value and so on." So there's something really pure play. And I'm really, really enjoying this space.

Rami Banna:

I think product leadership in itself is just a wonderful space to be. I love product because it is essentially a magnet for all sorts of folks, from all sorts of backgrounds and complete diversity of domains and kind of craft and skill coming together to push something forward, find a need, drive a product, pull people together, hopefully lead from behind, right? If needed, need to stand out front and kind of set the tone, set the vision, make it go forward. But I love product kind of almost across any domain. And I feel like there's much more in common across industries in product and product leadership than there is in any one kind of industry across different functions.

Rob Goodman:

So I want to change gears and I want to ask you what is a daily or weekly practice that has helped you over these past months, years now, that either in your business life or your personal life kind of fuels you up, charges you up and helps.

Rami Banna:

My answer is two-prong and is related. Right now, it's kids. Family. I've got two kids under three, a two-and-a-half-year-old and a six-month-old. And that is the daily practice of choice. It absolutely energizes me. It gives me all sorts of joy. The second I step away from the computer and look into one of the kids' faces, everything melts and it's entirely re-energizing. Before kids, it was exercise. It turns out those two things are relatively mutually exclusive. At least they are in my world. So before kids, it was very much exercise became the necessary thing to be energized. When I was younger, exercise was about fitness and was about all sorts of other things. And then it became clear, no, no, it was necessary in order to have energy to go through the day. And then kids have substituted that somewhere along the line. So I'm still trying to work out my balance. If anyone has tips, I'm very happy to receive them. But right now the kiddos are the best practice.

Rob Goodman:

And I have to ask, since you are leading a product for eCommerce at Stripe, I have to ask you, what's the last thing you bought using Stripe?

Rami Banna:

Well, it is Valentine's Day, Rob, today.

Rob Goodman:

That's true.

Rami Banna:

And we're recording. So happy Valentine's Day.

Rob Goodman:

Happy Valentine's Day.

Rami Banna:

So as you can imagine, a very well prepared husband, last night at about 10:30, I was quickly finalizing the logistics of my Valentine's Day purchase. I actually bought a gift card, speaking of gift cards, from a local spa.

Rob Goodman:

Oh, nice.

Rami Banna:

So that would probably be my best, literally last thing. It was 10:30 last night.

Rob Goodman:

Amazing. Rami, thank you so much for joining the show. This was so fun, so informative. I know listeners are going to get a ton out of it. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

Rami Banna:

My sincerest pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. This is really, really great fun.

Rob Goodman:

What a great conversation with Rami Banna. Thanks so much for tuning in. I love getting to chat with Rami about what's next in commerce. The future is arriving so fast now. Here are just a few of the moments that really stuck with me from this episode. The idea that digital-first will be the future of commerce everywhere. So that could be in real life at a store, on your phone, on the web, anywhere. Digital transactions will be the leading payment system. You can see why people are getting more and more excited about digital currencies. And keeping this in mind, how will eCommerce companies evolve the way they take payments to maximize convenience for their customers in a digital-first world? It was really interesting to hear about pre- and post-purchase activities and how those will be augmented by a more advanced payment system.

Rob Goodman:

I especially love the post-purchase example that Rami gave about a company making the ability to buy, return, credit a customer for a repurchase, all instantly. It's a flattening of the traditional funnel and an opportunity for eCommerce brands to better serve their customers while not losing out on sales. Since Rami has worked across such a broad spectrum of product, I really enjoyed hearing his perspective on B2B versus B2C product management. The idea, as Rami puts it, that in B2B, when you hear from a business or developer that they need something, there's no second guessing it. There's a requirement there that the product needs to get to. You can learn more about Stripe at stripe.com and check out more about Rami, his career and more of what's cooking at Stripe in our show notes at wix.com/nowwhat.

Rob Goodman:

This is Now What? by Wix, the podcast about how technology is changing…everything. Be sure to subscribe and follow the show wherever you're listening to get new episodes first, and please rate, review and share this show with your friends and colleagues too. Now What? podcast is produced and hosted by me, Rob Goodman, Executive Producer for Content at Wix. Audio engineering and editing is by Brian Pake at Pacific Audio. Music is composed and performed by Kimo Muraki. Executive Producers from Wix are Susan Kaplow and me, Rob Goodman. You can learn more at wix.com/nowwhat. We'll see you soon.