R/GA’s Paul Turzio on empowering brands with data

Paul Turzio:

Oftentimes brands are overlooking the importance of nailing the experience, the pre-purchase experience, but then certainly the post-purchase experience so that you're fostering that kind of a relationship and creating value at every touch.

Rob Goodman:

Hi, everyone. And welcome to Now What?, the podcast from Wix about how technology is changing everything. I'm your host, Rob Goodman. And in this series we're talking all about evolution in business, design, development and beyond. In this episode we talk to Paul Turzio, SVP of data and marketing sciences at R/GA, where he leads a team of over 40 people responsible for data and analytics services at the global agency leader. Paul and his team work with brands across a broad range of industries, including Samsung, Disney, USAA, Nike, Verizon, and IKEA. Paul recently led a global survey that asked 16,000 customers about their relationships with brands. The findings and subsequent report titled The Power of Brand Relationship Design have shifted the assumptions surrounding everything from marketing technology to the role of personalization in turning one-time customers into loyal fans.

Rob Goodman:

In this episode of Now What?, we talk to Paul about how to conduct the right experiments with technology, the role of post-purchase experiences and why brands need to keep their promises to customers. This is an eye-opening conversation that signals a real shift in how we think about marketing automation, branding, and customer experience. I can't wait for you to hear it. So let's get started. Paul, welcome to Now What? Great to have you here.

Paul Turzio:

Thanks, Rob. My pleasure. Good to see you.

Rob Goodman:

So why don't we start off and tell listeners about what your role is at R/GA.

Paul Turzio:

I lead a bit of a smorgasbord from a capability perspective. I am fortunate enough to lead our data, our marketing sciences and CRM teams on a global level at R/GA. We're a bit of a diverse motley crew of a little over 40 and growing. So a shameless plug, for any one of your listeners who might be interested in a gig, definitely feel free to reach out. But again, we're a motley crew of data analysts of segmentation specialists, of CRM and personalization strategists, of statistical modelers, of MarTech magicians. Who have I missed? Our measurement and testing experts. But one of the things that makes this crew special is that we're unified and we share a common belief and that's all about creating value from data.

Paul Turzio:

And so again, we roll out of bed everyday thinking about how we can use data to create value. And it's not just for the brands that we're privileged enough to help here at R/GA, but also, and this is important obviously to our topic today, the users that those brands are serving each and every day. That is becoming an expectation for brands and businesses to thrive. And so our job is to use data differently in such a way where we're helping brands turn into an enabler of value for their users or value in and of itself, when you think about how data can be converted into intelligence for users. So Nike customers know a bit more about how to beat their previous mile, that sort of thing. So just a quick anecdote and example there, but it's what makes this crew different and special with that.

Rob Goodman:

Awesome. Well, today I'm really excited to dive into this report that you and your team were behind, The Power of Brand Relationship Design. And when I read it, I was really awakened to the power of data and the power of these insights through customers. Yeah, and immediately it resonated with me how you were describing your work because it's all there on the pages of this report. Just incredible insights from this massive survey that you all did, but I'd love to hear in your words, how you describe this survey and what the goal of this thing was.

Paul Turzio:

I'll start with a bit of background because we did commission this or we designed it and filled it throughout 2020, and it really came about from a few insights and observations within our industry. Yes, within our client portfolio, but more broadly our industry. And I think that starts with an observation that our industry went through an extraordinary shift, probably more than one shift obviously, but one that was very much at the heart of the objective of the research. And that is when it came to achieving all of their growth, ambitions and growth targets from a business perspective, for the first time in quite some time, they took their eye away from new customer acquisition as a source of that growth, which as you and your listeners likely know has become brutally expensive.

Paul Turzio:

CPAs, cost per acquisition numbers have risen quite a bit over the last several years. It's become more difficult seemingly to acquire net new. And so again, their eye was taken away from growth by way of new customer acquisition to growing with the users that they had. It's in keeping with being grateful for what you have rather than always wanting more and more and more. And so in many respects, our clients and marketers, more generally, their next best dollar was spent in retention, in growing, metrics like that. And so that was a pretty massive shift. And one that had direct implications for the research that we designed and put to market.

Paul Turzio:

There are a few other trends too that's probably worth mentioning because all of them fed into the research brief and ultimately the design. We talk all the time about customer needs and their expectations and how expectations are always growing, right? It's never enough, but they're also growing more diverse. Increasingly, brands that we support and just brands in the world are looking to not just serve the macro needs of the many, but the individual needs of the one, right? And so how do we serve and support individual segments of one at scale? So you and I might conform to the same business segment, but some of your micro needs are very different than my micro needs. And it's incumbent upon brands to understand those and serve those in order to break through and connect with me as a prospect and over time as a user.

Rob Goodman:

And so all this thinking went into the framing and the brief and the reasoning behind delivering the survey?

Paul Turzio:

That's just it. I mean, it rationalizes why this kind of research was required. And it also was used to configure the learning agenda that the research was built around. I think there's one other point too I'll make and that is post-purchase. One of the things that we learned as we tried to better understand some of the dynamics and ways to win that we can help consult clients with. It tends to be or has been one of the most under researched areas of advertising, of marketing. There's so much research that's been done over the years around brand, certainly human and consumer truths and everything that happens pre-purchase that leads up to the moment of truth. But once we have them, right? Once they become a customer, that's where a lot of the research falls off a cliff in terms of depth and breadth and availability.

Paul Turzio:

And so we also felt that by designing this research, by investing in this global research, that we would be closing a critical learning gap for our industry, or at least helping to close that. In terms of the actual research, there are a variety of ways in which we could have went about doing this, especially during 2020 when budgets were tight and we were using the sharpest pencil that we had and then we're asked to sharpen it further. We decided not to skimp out on the research. A rather robust custom global study where we surveyed, I think it was a little over 16,000 people across six categories, nine markets around the world for the most part representative to the population within those markets. Again, we were fortunate enough through the analysis of all of that research to discover these new dynamics and expectations that we were previously looking for in past bodies of research. And so all of those dynamics and expectations that today's brands don't just have to meet, but they have to exceed them in order to win with customers in the long term.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, definitely. I mean, what did you see happen last year that really evolved that relationship between brands and their customers?

Paul Turzio:

This builds on some of what I was describing in the setup. Yes, we talk about needs and expectations growing more diverse. On one hand, tech advances make it easier for brands seemingly to meet and exceed those expectations. So if it's all about segments of one at scale, the MarTech landscape and all that it offers brands and marketers alike makes it seemingly easy to meet and exceed those expectations. Obviously there's a lot of work behind that in order to make it happen. But tech advances I think have led to the adoption of a lot of those MarTech solutions. And then also when you talk about tech advances in terms of shortening the length of product life cycles, I was talking to someone about this this morning, where Apple customers are talking about what features the iPhone 13 will have the day after the iPhone 12 release, right?

Rob Goodman:

Right.

Paul Turzio:

And so the product life cycle, and obviously that's an extreme, but life cycles are shortening and that's because of tech advances. As a result, I think differences amongst products and brands are becoming less discernible. There's a lot of parody and features right now. And it puts more onus on the relationship that you as a brand foster and maintain over the full life cycle and less attention on the product itself for carrying that load. There's also, I think something important to note, and that is the rise of usage brand aspirations. Oftentimes brands are in it for the transaction. And historically that was always the case. Again, just get them to transact and we all win.

Paul Turzio:

Today brands not only want the transaction, they want consumers to buy, but buy into a connected ecosystem of products and services. And so that's really what defines usage brand. And so more and more of the brands that are coming to us for help have that as an aspiration, as an ambition. Again, all of this has implications for getting a better understanding of the kind of relationship that we can and should look to have and build on behalf of brands.

Rob Goodman:

Right. You're moving away from that idea of selling a specific product and more so selling or fostering might be a better word, the relationship and the connection between the brand and the customer or the user.

Paul Turzio:

Yeah, that's absolutely right. Many point their benefits in a way where it seems turnkey and easy enough to serve the right message, right time and place to different customer segments based on what you know, and what you can learn and grow with over time. But I think as those investments were made over the last three years and the dominance of data and personalization in marketing is all the rage, I think a lot of our clients and a lot of the industry right now are being pressured to realize and demonstrate a return on that investment to their stakeholders, to their business.

Paul Turzio:

A lot of those MarTech solutions don't come cheap, not only in terms of cost, but level of effort and time and resources and all those things. And so last year, especially I think was a moment... As we all went remote and virtual, there was a belief that, "Oh, can't we just turn it to the machines? We don't have to brief this nine ways. Let's just have the machines auto optimize and they'll tell us what message is right for each customer so that we can make money while we sleep." Right? And so the truth hurts sometimes, and it's not as easy as a lot of those MarTech solutions make it seem.

Paul Turzio:

So that was another driver behind the learning agenda associated with the research, but also really just the importance of understanding what makes for a good relationship so that we can begin to as custodians of those brands help configure the MarTech stacks in such a way where they adhere to a lot of the principles and insights that emerged from that research. So we're teaching the robots in the right way to be empathetic to users and not spray and pray.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. It's a really interesting evolution, that idea that the tech stack and the MarTech solutions need to facilitate that right place, right time, right message, but they need to be able to ingest and share the human qualities of the people behind the brands and the products. Right? So maybe it's more about facilitation of conversation than creating an artificial one or these different pieces, which I think make sense when looking what happened in 2020, we lost all of the in-person. So of course immediately the gap in that in-person human relationship digitally is going to become so prominent and so obvious that, "Okay, right, we know who they are, we can reach them, but are we having that connection and that relationship building that we need?" I'm wondering now that we're starting to come out of this a little bit what that potential hybrid model might look like between IRL, digital, and where that intersection of relationship building for brands needs to thrive.

Paul Turzio:

It's funny, my mind immediately went to channel. I think so often do we defer to digital as the only channel that is available to us to connect with customers. And when you rewind the tape 20, maybe even 15 years ago, direct mail was one of the leading channels that brands use. And some of the world's leading brands still use direct mail and offline channels to connect with their customers on an individual level. And when you look at the last 18 months or so, and what that's done in terms of channel consumption behavior, I think one of the interesting things that marketers should keep in mind is the evolving role of channels and how some, which historically have been relegated to been there, done that yesterday, no one reads a direct mail piece anymore to something that actually offers marketers the opportunity to connect with their customers in a far more emotional, far more meaningful way.

Paul Turzio:

Again, since most of us, at least... Today's May 24th. So who knows what the next week or two will hold in terms of new CDC advice. But we're still home for the most part. And I for one look forward to stretching my legs and checking the mail once a day, the actual mail versus my email. That's a surprise and delight moment for brands to show up with something of value. We're helping a lot of clients right now not to reveal different strategies we're building for them, but re-imagine onboarding and what that could and should look like. And one consideration is let's move away from a traditional email drip campaign, which customers are now used to getting. Customers and users will get an email maybe every day in the first seven days or every week for the first seven weeks that helps them get up to speed on how to get the most out of their widget, that sort of thing.

Paul Turzio:

Why couldn't that take the form of something that is a bit more higher impact that starts with a thank you and welcome to the family? And that could be that high-impact, high touch direct mail. So to answer your question, I mean, I would encourage marketers to reconsider the role of channels, not just purely in terms of addressability and reach, but also ways in which we can connect meaningfully with customers in ways that quite simply digital can't.

Rob Goodman:

Was there an aha moment for you in this report or a surprise shocker that made you veer left when you were going right? Or did it all seem like additive incremental evolutionary steps that may be the gas pedal was pushed down harder on given what we went through in 2020?

Paul Turzio:

The aha for me and I think there are a few POVs around what the biggest aha was within the walls of R/GA. For me, I think how dramatic both the impact to and upside of relationships have today versus perception or assumption going into this. I mean, listen, relationships are so important today and you touched on this as well earlier, around what's happening in society and loss of human touch and what that means, not just for personal relationships, but relationships I have with brands. So I think just how dramatic the opportunity is, as that emerged, I think that's where there were a few goosebumps.

Paul Turzio:

What that tells me as a marketer who's passionate about the use of data, the use of technology and the respect of creativity is that we truly have an opportunity here to, yes, help marketers, brands and businesses grow, but more importantly, help users become a better version of themselves. And that's the bit about what we talk about in this concept, next best self.

Rob Goodman:

I was just about to ask you about that. It was one of my favorite concepts from the report. This idea that brands are now really helping customers become this next best version of themselves. And I love that idea. It's not about selling you a thing. It's not about upselling you, it's not about this or that. It's about how can I support the growth, the learning, the evolution of this person that is on the other side of this relationship? So, yeah, I would love to hear more about this idea.

Paul Turzio:

Over the years there have been a variety of segmentation approaches employed by research groups and marketers alike. And they're all designed to help provide a better understanding of either the people that they have or the people that they aspire to win. Right? So your prospects and customers. And you can cut that by value. What is their present value? What is their future value? You can cut it by needs state. You can cut it by interest and affinity. You can cut it by behaviors and all of those are still relevant and useful. So the notion of next best self isn't something that discredits or devalues any of those attributes. I think if anything, it's another way of framing segmentation, such that we're beginning to think more empathetically about how to connect and support the people that we aspire to win with and going beyond needs as straight up functional needs, but even thinking about emotional needs.

Paul Turzio:

The classic example that R/GA has permission to speak to is Nike because of our relationship working with Nike over, I want to say it's close to 20 years now, if not more. And so Nike can look at their customer segments based on high propensity to purchase a pair of running sneakers. And sure, that will get them to an audience who perhaps would be in market if they were served a compelling message that motivated them to take action. But instead, again, the research pointed to a new way to think about people and the outcome. And so in keeping with that Nike example, it would disregard the fact that those users who have the high propensity to purchase those running shoes are really in pursuit of beating their best time for a mile.

Paul Turzio:

And so if now you reframe the way in which you create those segments, but more importantly serve them, it creates a far more meaningful connection at the onset and more importantly for marketers, creates a whole new canvas to ideate and to develop breakthrough communications and experiences that deliver true value to that user. Because if you deliver the value to the user, the business will take care of itself.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, I love those examples. As someone who works in content and has been a marketer for my whole career, this whole world opens up of, okay, maybe that runner is someone who is trying to avoid injury so they can keep running into their 80s and beyond. What content are you going to serve up that is supportive of that? And what are the products that are naturally going to fit into that content that are, again, going to be supportive of this idea? It seems like such a small thing, but it really unlocks. So while we're speaking about marketing, one of the interesting parts of the report was this idea that marketers are basically responsible for a whole lot of disappointment. The idea that they're over promising, under delivering in all sorts of ways, in terms of the product experience, the selling experience, the customer experience, all of that. Talk to me a little bit about that. And then how is the course corrected on that front?

Paul Turzio:

The classic example is selling before they have permission or even upselling before a brand has permission. When we talk about generating disappointment, there's nothing worse than immediately after purchasing my first product from a brand getting that email from them the day after that attempts to sell me something irrelevant after I just bought my first thing, but it's like, "Oh, upgrade to our family plan," right? Now, we don't know if you're a family, you might be a single user, but you did buy the single member plan and there's also this family plan, too soon, wrong upsell. Again, selling before a brand has permission or upselling I should say, even cross-selling, brands should be looking for ways in which to earn that permission.

Paul Turzio:

Instead use those first moments to help new users get the most out of what they just purchased. We oftentimes refer to that as mastery. And I think we call this out in the report as well. Minimizing time to mastery. Because once I feel like I am a master of the product that I just purchased and the sooner I get to that point, the sooner I'll be open and receptive to maybe a family plan, maybe whatever it is that the brand could offer. So look for ways to reduce that time to mastery and look for ways to continue to welcome those new customers into the brand family and make the full portfolio of products and services known more naturally because the moment matters. And those early moments are critical to ensure that a foundation for the longterm is set up.

Rob Goodman:

Hey, everyone, I'm excited to tell you about Wix eCommerce, the complete solution for entrepreneurs starting an online business, retailers moving their stores online or brands already selling millions of dollars. Wix's industry leading e-commerce platform features advanced business tools that will help you launch, run and scale your online store. With designer made store templates to choose from, plus the ability to customize anything from the storefront to check out, product pages, cart and store member areas too, you can create a brand that perfectly suits your business.

Rob Goodman:

With Wix eCommerce, you can manage your own inventory or source from suppliers you work with, offer as many products as you like and sell with unlimited product collections. You can define shipping rules and automate your taxes for every sale. You can also accept secure payments online with the Wix payment solution or choose from a global network of providers, including major credit card companies PayPal and Stripe. Wix eCommerce gives you the ability to extend your reach with multi-channel sales all while managing everything in one single powerful dashboard, including online and mobile storefronts, Facebook, eBay, Instagram, and Amazon shops. With an integrated analytics dashboard, you'll be able to review your sales, create tailored business reports and focus your marketing efforts where they'll have the biggest impact all while saving time with a streamlined operation to run your business smoothly.

Rob Goodman:

There's so much more you can do. Offer loyalty programs to customers, subscriptions, automate your social campaigns and manage every aspect of tracking and processing orders from purchase to delivery. You can get started with Wix eCommerce at wix.com/ecommerce and explore templates, tutorials, blog posts, webinars and so much more. And now you can level up your plans this year with our new 2021 eCommerce strategy handbook, featuring four key strategies for growth, case studies from incredible companies, insights from PayPal and much more. Download it today at wix.com/ecommerce/strategy-handbook. Now, let's get back to the show.

Rob Goodman:

I want to ask you about this idea of D2C marketing strategies. Over this past year, the idea of D2C marketing has now become essential. Years past there were these darling brands and startups that were selling direct to consumer and really interesting to analyze and watch and spotlight. And now every product, business, organization, e-commerce platform, they have to be selling directly and they have to have strategies that when they're... What do you think has become absolutely essential in terms of D2C in the past year?

Paul Turzio:

My mind immediately goes to the experience. We have something at R/GA that we lovingly refer to as service transference. This was something that was coined out of our experience team and Aaron Lynch specifically, but what we mean by service transference is a user's expectation for all of the brands that they will use over the course of the day is set by their best experience with the brand. And so a tactical example where if I wake up 5:30 AM, because I had a prep for a client meeting, and I didn't have it in me to get in the car, go to Dunkin' Donuts, get a cup of coffee and maybe a donut, definitely a donut, and so I fire up Uber Eats and within 15 minutes the thing is here, but more than that, I was in the app less than 10 seconds. So in the time that it would have taken me to brew a K-Cup, I got my order in and my Dunkin's on the way, right?

Paul Turzio:

Save the day. And the day hasn't even started yet. It's 5:45. I got my caffeine, I got my cruller. I am ready to go. And I have Uber Eats to thank for that and obviously Dunkin'. That's the bar that every brand has to at least meet or exceed as the day progresses and as the week progresses, et cetera. So when you look at DTC being all the rage right now, and it's understood why it's becoming an imperative, I think often times brands are overlooking the importance of nailing the experience, the pre-purchase experience, but then certainly the post-purchase experience so that you're fostering that kind of a relationship and creating value at every touch.

Paul Turzio:

My advice would be don't overlook the importance of the experience. Fulfillment is one thing. A brand might have the ability now to ship product direct to consumer for free, great. Now we don't have to have the customer pay for shipping. There's priority now there in terms of the expectation, great. The experience goes beyond just fulfillment. So my advice would be to consider the end-to-end experience and the ownership experience, which is very much a part of that.

Rob Goodman:

When you say ownership experience, what do you mean specifically?

Paul Turzio:

We're talking post-purchase. Now that I have the product, it doesn't end there. I received a piece of furniture from Poly a couple of weeks ago. Again, DTC, they regularly check up on me making sure that I'm getting the most out of my new sofa, not upselling and cross-selling the perfect ottoman for the sofa, but making sure that I have all of the cleaning tips and maintenance tips and things that might be useful to me in order to get the most out of my purchase. And so it's that usage experience, that ownership experience that makes me feel special and valued. And over time that's earning Poly the permission to sell me that ottoman, because I've now gotten the most out of my sofa, that sort of thing.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. I love that. So let's take a step back and talk about the agency world broadly. From your perspective, how are agencies evolving to better support their clients? And then I, of course, would like to hear about R/GA specifically and from your seat how you think the agency has moved forward.

Paul Turzio:

I'll answer the second part of that question first. R/GA is always changing. That's one of the things that makes us special. We're never more than 80% complete over storied history. And it's by design ensuring that we're evolving, we're ahead of the curve. I think one of the things that has perhaps resonated with me most is that there's a growing share of work that is coming to us that falls directly within the space of relationship. We came to a moment of truth about 16 months ago where we defined a bespoke service offering around relationship design because of the growing portfolio of clients that R/GA is helping globally on solutions that fall into this space.

Paul Turzio:

And so we are fortunate enough to be working with some of the largest most respected brands, be it Progressive Insurance or Samsung, Spotify, Globally, just to name a few. We absolutely look to preserve the integrity of their brand, but importantly put the power of their brand to work. We oftentimes talk about magnetizing the brand to deepen client relationships. And so I think brand relationship design as a new service offering that is built on our legacy, looking back at work that we've done for the Nike's of the world, inventing Nike Plus, and what that represented in terms of a post-purchase experience, a membership experience specifically, right? It's taking a lot of that legacy work, those philosophies, codifying them and making them relevant to clients today based on all of the dynamics and expectations that the report certainly helped emerge.

Paul Turzio:

That's one of the changes that has been most compelling and exciting for me and my team. And again, when you think about the role of a data analyst at any agency, they're rarely front and center. Fortunately, I think they would have seat at the table, but their voice might be a bit quiet than some of the other dominant voices cross functions. Our guys are leading these kinds of assignments, this body of work because of the data requirements, the technology requirements, how to develop personalized content and creative at scale so it's not just 10 pieces of creative and 20 lines. It's tens of thousands, right? It still needs to adhere to and conform to R/GAs strict creativity guidelines. It's got to hit the bar, even if it is a personalized email.

Paul Turzio:

One of the things that's changed is again, I think the proliferation of data and personalization and more and more of our work, the shift towards existing customers. And then also what that means in terms of the role are people within marketing sciences, CRM, and data can play how they can put their superpowers and talent to work in new and exciting ways. And that's the change that I think for most of us has been amazing. It's music to our ears.

Rob Goodman:

And you mentioned this idea of magnetizing brands. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Paul Turzio:

There is so much power behind a brand's purpose and the promise that it looks to keep with its users. And so when we think about how to help brands establish and deepen relationships with customers, one of the, again, most powerful assets they have is not just user data, it's not just channels across an ecosystem, it's the brand itself. And so how do we begin to help a brand walk the walk of its brand purpose in such a way where its users feel a sense of belonging, feel that pride of ownership, feel that sense of community and connection? We often treat brand as an operating system and think of it as an operating system within the walls of R/GA. And so obviously the brand touches everything that we offer, be it communications, be it experience, but then even relationships. That's something that we look to walk the walk on when it comes to post-purchase communications and experiences.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. I mean the idea of reframing brand and brand marketing from awareness, big splashy, let's touch the masses too, well, let's think about brand marketing from the individual perspective and how do you move that individual closer to the brand, closer to the mission, closer to a relationship connection and do that in a way that's at scale, I think is really interesting. And again, seems like another unlock to creativity, to ideas that are going to leverage that idea as you describe so well of the relationship and that connection between people and those companies.

Paul Turzio:

And those are the kinds of values that lead to lasting relationships. So when you look at a brand's purpose, there are functional benefits that spin out of that. There are emotional benefits that spin out of that. If you're fortunate enough, as you climb the pyramid, you start to get into benefits for society and the communities that they serve. And then if you're really playing your cards right, the most valued brands in the world are those that are truly world changing. Those are examples of brands, be it the Googles, the Verizons to a certain extent and Samsungs and Apples and Facebooks who are in a position to make the world a better place by paying off their purpose with every touch.

Paul Turzio:

It's incumbent upon us as, again, the custodians and ambassadors of those brands to help them create the right kind of communications that align with that brand purpose, create the right kind of experience, but then even that post-purchase experience, thinking about the relationship as the last frontier, making sure we can magnetize their brand as we go.

Rob Goodman:

And you mentioned R/GA creating the Nike Plus experience. I have to ask you about lessons from that experience of creating it and now years out, maybe even pulling out some of those insights that people out there listening who are building their eCommerce brands or their platforms, they might bring into their loyalty programs or their programs to connect and foster these relationships with their customers.

Paul Turzio:

It's important to start small. I mean, these things are complex, right? But all of those claims, all the emails that you and I get from external senders every day that promise the world in 60 seconds or less, turnkey this, turnkey that, that's not to say that they don't work, but it takes time to configure them in the right way. It takes talent and resources to maintain them over time, right? And it takes the right kind of expertise to connect those solutions in a way that enables us to truly connect the journey for the users that we're ultimately serving.

Paul Turzio:

And then when you start to layer on complexities from a global perspective, which is increasingly becoming a requirement for us, solving and supporting global requirements is easier said than done. And it's not easy to say. I think it's important that we start small and fail fast because eventually we will fail and it's important that we can learn from it. And so I think the more we look to construct, whether they're experiments, whether they're pilots or ways in which we can validate a belief and a hypothesis in a way of working and an approach in terms of how to configure those systems, how to tap the right data, how to set up the right APIs, how to set up the right templates, the assets and how they're being built, the design system, how many people we need to flex that design system to, the cultural nuances associated with different regions, which are important, which aren't, it just becomes something that you can spend years planning and never be done, never get the work that's in market.

Paul Turzio:

So these things are inherently complex. Yes, that is one of the things that makes it interesting for some of our talent. And it's also one of the reasons why it's important to start small so that we can quickly learn and begin to build out a proper playbook so that we can scale over time in a methodical way, and in a way that again, adheres to some of those learnings. But I can't understate how important it is to validate some of those hypotheses and start small.

Rob Goodman:

Given the evolution we're seeing in the marketplace with brands, with e-commerce, what are some of the jobs that you are envisioning are going to become a regular part of these staffing requirements for agencies and even for brands over the next six months to next few years ahead?

Paul Turzio:

I think there is a demand for data experts who are not just data scientists and engineers who possess that technical expertise, but also the ability to synthesize data and help others understand how it can impact and integrate into the programs that we're building on a strategic level and even on a creative level. And that speaks to the other side, which are groups of creatives. So your traditional poppy and visual pairing of creative, who are either trained, conditioned or used to leveraging data. So your data-driven creatives, people who can think of ones and zeros as colors on a palette for creativity.

Paul Turzio:

The more we have talent who receives the brief for personalized content at scale as a creative opportunity versus something that is truly systematic color by number, okay, ship it, where's the next brief? That's the kind of creative talent that we love partnering with within the relationship space, especially because they unlock big idea opportunities through personalized content at scale. And that's awesome. That's the way to break through. That's the way to create value.

Paul Turzio:

So I think it's a combo platter of that data strategist and the data-driven creative making sure that our breakthrough creative that is underpinned by wicked smart data strategy doesn't live and die on a whiteboard or in a deck. In order for it to actually see the light of day, we need to be able to leverage those systems, that tech stack to make it real.

Rob Goodman:

Paul, I want to close by asking what has been putting fuel in your tank personally, professionally? Could be time with family, could be reading books, going for runs, anything. How have you found a way to recharge and replenish over these months?

Paul Turzio:

I think relationships are taking on a renewed focus, have a renewed focus within our company, within our agency, but then within our industry and it's long overdue in my mind. And it's something that is important and drives me as a contributor. I think the other piece of that is how relationships in all of our personal lives have taken on new meaning and new importance over that same time period. And so what drives me it's that new found focus, but also that new found appreciation of why relationships are important and how to go about making the time for them in such a way where there are mutually beneficial outcomes.

Paul Turzio:

And so that extends to not just the portfolio of clients that I'm fortunate enough to work with, but my personal relationships as well, relationships with my kids, my wife and my family. This time in quarantine I think has like others just reminded me of the importance of connections and relationships, the whole human touch thing. And that as a bit of an ethos has been created at least for me on a personal level over the last year. And so to be able to put some of that philosophy into practice professionally, as well as my personal life has been awesome.

Rob Goodman:

Amazing. Paul, thank you so much for joining the show. This was such a joy to spend the time chatting with you and thank you so much.

Paul Turzio:

All right, Rob. Yeah, the pleasure is all mine. Be well and take care.

Rob Goodman:

Thanks so much for listening and a big thanks to Paul and the team at R/GA. I learned so much in this conversation and in the report Paul and his team authored. Some of our conversation that really stuck with me are dispelling this new set it and forget it myth of MarTech or marketing technology, AI and machine learning. It takes real people and automation to build brands, campaigns, and experiences that will truly resonate with customers for the long haul. We talked about how so many companies are focused on driving awareness and engagement in the pre-purchase experience when they need to be equally concerned with what happens after purchase or as Paul puts it, the post-purchase experience so that brands are driving, yes, repeat purchases, but also loyalty engagement and advocacy in their customers.

Rob Goodman:

And how R/GA thinks about working with their clients to not only leverage the purchase behavior data that they have about their customers, but also leverage the brand of the company. And how brand is one of the most powerful assets in a company's toolkit. I really got so much value in hearing Paul talk about leveraging brand in all aspects of customer engagement and retention. And I hope you did too. You can see all the amazing work that R/GA is up to at rga.com. And I highly recommend downloading Paul and his team's report on the power of brand relationships at rga.com/futurevision/cx.

Rob Goodman:

Remember to please leave us a review on Apple podcasts, share the show with a friend or colleague and hit that subscribe button for Now What? wherever you're listening to the podcast right now. That way you'll get new episodes as soon as they're out and you can get a full transcript of this episode, show notes and much more on our website at wix.com/nowwhat. Thanks so much for listening. This is Now What? by Wix, the podcast about how technology is changing everything. Now What? is hosted and produced by me, Rob Goodman, executive producer for content at Wix. Audio engineering and editing is by Brian Pake at Pacific Audio. Music is composed and performed by Kimo Muraki. Our executive producers from Wix are Susan Kaplow, Shani More, Omer Shai and me Rob Goodman.

Rob Goodman:

You can discover more about the show and our guests at wix.com/nowwhat. Be sure to subscribe and follow the show for new episodes, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share this show with your friends and colleagues. We'll see you soon.