WarnerMedia’s Richard Jennings on design transformation

Richard Jennings:

As creative people and designers, we are building art with a different set of rules for every medium, you have to understand it. And you have to partner with people to understand what's working and what's not working. That communication line is extremely important when it comes to design.

Rob Goodman:

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Now What, the podcast from Wix about how technology is changing everything. I'm your host, Rob Goodman, and in this series, we're talking all about evolution in business design, development and beyond.

Rob Goodman:

Today, we're joined by Richard Jennings, Senior Vice President of design and production at WarnerMedia. Richard is a creative leader and storyteller with an incredible career story in the entertainment industry, transforming his career as a design leader, as the music and TV industries were themselves evolving seemingly overnight. His team at WarnerMedia services, HBO, HBO Max, Max Originals, and supports partners across all of WarnerMedia's businesses. Richard's passion for learning drove him to pursue an MFA in graphic design that he completed in 2019. And he now uses that achievement as a means to help motivate and inspire those around him.

Rob Goodman:

In this episode, we talk to Richard about where he finds inspiration, his work in making the design industry more inclusive, what organizational evolution looks like during a global pandemic, and so much more. You're in store for a great conversation with my friend Richard Jennings. Let's get started.

Rob Goodman:

Richard, welcome to the Now What podcast.

Richard Jennings:

Hi.

Rob Goodman:

So great to have you here. We have a long history together. And I know you from your art director days in the music industry. I'd love to get started and hear a little bit more about what your role entails at WarnerMedia today.

Richard Jennings:

Rob, thank you so much, really, thank you so much for inviting me to do this. Let me start with a little bit of my background, because I just think it's important to talk about where I've been and where I'm at now. So I started in fashion, and I spent about 15 years in the music industry, before coming to WarnerMedia, and I've been at WarnerMedia now for about eight years. I oversee creative for HBO, HBO Max and Max Originals. I think the three areas if you want to boil them down, you could say that it's design, interactive and production. 70% of the work is key art development for US and international use, out of home, digital assets, presentations, digital publications, environmental, we're going to keep on going on motion design for social campaigns, HBO Max branded merch, and I also have a copywriting and editing team. But I think most importantly, helping drive brand awareness set by the brand team is my main focus.

Rob Goodman:

How big is this team, because that's a huge purview that you're overseeing?

Richard Jennings:

Well, I think if you include freelancers, it's about 80 people.

Rob Goodman:

Wow.

Richard Jennings:

But all located, well, now it's COVID. So you can't say we're all located together, because that's not true. But we're mostly in New York.

Rob Goodman:

Okay. Was it like a full floor in a building?

Richard Jennings:

Well, it was about a half of the floor.

Rob Goodman:

Okay. So talk to me a little bit about your own creative leadership in media and how that's evolved over your time in the music and entertainment industries. Because you've grown personally, you've grown the size of your teams, and you've really moved your way up the ranks, so to speak, to have such a major impact that these corporations. Talk to me about that leadership journey.

Richard Jennings:

You give me a lot more credit. But I really appreciate that. Thank you. I come from a really strong background. And I started in the music industry way before the digital revolution. So I'm dating myself a bit. But that digital revolution definitely had a big impact on my career decisions, but also realized early on the importance of evolving and being relevant. Printing has definitely become specialized, but digital assets still are going to rule, and having a team that understands print is still important, but diversifying the team to understand motion and digital is absolutely pivotal. They both require different processes of design thinking, but it is possible for creatives to understand both, you must understand human behavior and engagement, and of course, at the core of our jobs, we are the messengers, and let's not forget the medium is a critical factor.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. And so what about that transition for you from print to digital, was that tough over those years now that more and more has become interactive?

Richard Jennings:

Not at all. I think at the core of it is about design, right? It's just a natural progression for creative people to evolve. That's what design is about, evolution. And if you really are in this field, that's something that you embrace, and I welcome it now.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. And so much is happening in the streaming world, especially over this past year, we're seeing more movies go direct to streamers. And I know, more and more are coming to HBO Max. So the way that consumers and viewers are thinking about streaming media, it's changing and it's changing every moment.

Richard Jennings:

Yeah. Well, on that, I think that what we're starting to realize is that we have to get to our audiences and our audiences consume entertainment in all different ways. It's really just feeding that beast. Personally, I'm not a fan. That's just me, I'm not a fan of going to a theater, I love to have that experience at home. And I think that's what we're answering. We're giving content to people wherever they would like to consume it.

Rob Goodman:

You mentioned that the team used to take up half a floor in the building, obviously, now everyone is remote. Can you talk to me a little bit about that shift? You always worked in office settings, with the team and collaborating in live spaces, what was that shift like, for remote for you both as a leader, and as someone who's trying to calibrate and successfully empower your team?

Richard Jennings:

If you had asked me over a year ago if this were possible, I absolutely would have said, "You're crazy. You're absolutely crazy. This is just not the way creative people work." But I think what we've had to do is really address dependencies and expectations. Because these have definitely evolved, the tolerance level has expanded, people are now more empathetic to the creative process. But what has not changed is the expectation of turnaround and delivery. There's still so much to teach here. I think the main challenge was to understand, we're visual communicators, and now we have to be a master at verbal communication as well, video meetings have definitely helped. But video fatigue is real. Scheduling meetings, just for the sake of scheduling a meeting is exhausting.

Richard Jennings:

I will say that I'm not a fan of virtual happy hours with a group of people. I think, really, what is that? Long gone are those little side conversations that are productive and meaningful. I really believe the creative connective tissue has definitely worn thin. But I don't think that we will remain this way. I think there is hope that we will be back into a way that we will all work together and be able to have those organic, wonderful, creative conversations that are on the fly.

Rob Goodman:

Are there things you did from a leadership perspective that really doubled down on communication, where you never would have thought of doing X, Y, or Z a year or two ago but now there's more recap docs, or there's more Slacks or chats happening, or there's more documentation? How do you compensate for what's missing?

Richard Jennings:

Well, I'll tell you, my team would probably, I'm sure, they're not a fan of this, but we do have a long standing 9:30 meeting where we go over our projects. And so for me, that was really important to take from the physical environment and then bring it on to the virtual environment. Because I felt like that morning connection to talk about where we are and what we're doing, and just have what could be a somewhat organic conversation, that's still in place. And we've taken that from the physical to virtual. But I think we've really had to embrace all those tools that are out there, those communication tools, I think texting has become more important to stay connected, as well as Slack. And I have to tell you, it took me a while to get onto Slack, but now that I'm on it, I'm a fan and now I'm like, "Let's open a new channel for this and that."

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. You're like texting your friends and family and then you're Slacking your workers, so you're like, "I'm just chatting, everyone." You don't want to send the wrong emoji to the wrong person but, you're figuring it out. Yeah, it's helpful. It's definitely helpful for organizing and keeping things like an ongoing dialogue versus formalizing, okay, now I'm going to sit down and write an email, it's going to be proper, and it's like, no, sometimes you have something quick, you can't go by somebody's desk, but you can at least just chat them.

Richard Jennings:

Yeah, I think Slack has definitely been our savior when it comes to those type of conversations, because you can have multiple conversations going at the same time.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. A lot of people have said the past year has shown cracks in teams or in culture or things like that, that maybe wouldn't have shown had there not been this transformation to remote. Were there things that bubbled up, that came to light now that the team was not together all of the time that you have learned from and want to bring into whatever the next phases of our work lives will be?

Richard Jennings:

I think there is this one challenge that I really have felt. The one thing about being around other creative people, whether you're involved in what is going on, you're actually still experiencing it happening around you. So what I think is a big loss and what we're doing now is that you have some of those junior people who are not partaking in those really wonderful conversations that happen.

Rob Goodman:

The exposure.

Richard Jennings:

Yeah. And it becomes impossible to have a meeting with 20 people to review, say this one key art exploration. It's a wonderful idea, but then it becomes wasteful of people's time. And I think in this new world, you really do have to think about people's time. Time is really important, because we're expected to be on and ready and connected at a moment's notice, within seconds. There used to be a time when you could walk to a meeting and kill five, 10 minutes having a conversation with someone and it's okay to be late. But you're one minute late to a video meeting, people are like, "Why are you late?"

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, we know you didn't have to commute.

Richard Jennings:

Right. But that's what I think is really missing. And what we're losing is that ability to have that exposure happening. I love that you use that word, because that's exactly what it is, is just exposure to the whole design process.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, that's really interesting that those soft effects that you get just by being physically around people, that can be missing. So maybe it changes into, "Okay, here, everyone, you can go into the live design file as a viewer and look around and check out the comments." It's not the same. But maybe there's these other ways that you open things up for people to at least view. But of course, people are going to learn so much from hearing the feedback, seeing the work, seeing the response to that, seeing the process happening live, verbally and visually is so critical to learning.

Richard Jennings:

I think one thing that we need to become aware of and my account team is so amazing about taking a look at what we're doing and how we're doing it and should we change and they're really being proactive right now. And it's funny, you'd ask me this, because this is just happening in real time, is that they're trying to figure out a way to involve people more in what is being done. Because I think that when we are so isolated like this, you're not seeing the full picture, you're only seeing and so concentrated on what's in front of you. So they're really looking at, how do we celebrate some achievements and talk about it amongst everyone versus people not knowing what's going on on the day to day.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah, just zooming in on maybe one, maybe it's a tiny win, maybe it's a massive campaign win, and just unpacking it, celebrating, like, "Look how we evolved here, we moved from A to Z and got there." I love that idea of celebrating those moments and giving people access to that learning of what happened in the process. So that's great to hear. I know in your role, you need to interface with a lot of different teams, and you need to really own these relationships with the business leaders. Talk to me a little bit about the idea of learning the language of business in design, and what that looks like in your work.

Richard Jennings:

My job really is to connect with people in all different disciplines. And as I mentioned before, that there is definitely this shift for creative people to be more verbal communicators. I really do find a tendency to push my creative people to give me the why versus, I just like that, or this is what I prefer. Because I think honing in on being able to speak the creative language is very important in a business sense and to get people involved and excited. But I think too that, it's a lot about enthusiasm and passion. And that definitely is conveyed in the way that we present and share ideas. And I don't know, maybe it's me, but I don't find it such a challenge in the business sense.

Richard Jennings:

It seems natural to me, I feel like there's been this evolution of, creativity is everywhere and people get it and people are looking for it. And they're looking to be inspired and have the design or the concept explained to them so that they understand it. So I don't really find it as a challenge.

Rob Goodman:

It sounds like there's a lot of trust in the organization.

Richard Jennings:

Yeah. We're a creative organization, we're entertainment.

Rob Goodman:

Right.

Richard Jennings:

It's not like we're going in and doing brain surgery and we've got to worry about saving someone's life. I don't think anyone would be in this business if you didn't love it and you weren't in that mindset about, this is entertainment.

Rob Goodman:

So everyone in the organization at their core is passionate about entertainment, passionate about creativity. So there's already that shared DNA, language of entertainment and creativity, and whether it's visualized in the show or the projections around sales and marketing, down to the visuals, it all is still rallied around that shared vision?

Richard Jennings:

Yes, you got it.

Rob Goodman:

Well, has there been a time when you had a really strong vision for a show and there was an executive who was just like, "Oh, no, that's not at all where we need to go." And you had to either battle it out or find the middle ground together?

Richard Jennings:

That happens all the time.

Rob Goodman:

Every day, yeah.

Richard Jennings:

That happens every day in creative, right?

Rob Goodman:

Exactly.

Richard Jennings:

You're, you're given this task of creating this key art to represent this show and there's a lot of people who are involved in giving feedback and direction as to what is the right way to convey the message or the concept of the show. But I think that it's completely a partnership and a collaboration, and I think just in design, that is what design is about is that push and pull and finding that middle ground. So, I wouldn't be in this business if I didn't have those healthy discussions and trying to figure it out, because you got to take everything that you're hearing and distill it down into something visual that works for everyone.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah.

Richard Jennings:

Or at least most of them.

Rob Goodman:

Varieties, right? Can't please all the people all the time.

Richard Jennings:

Whoever has the final decision.

Rob Goodman:

And I love how there's a universe of content and creative made around each show, right? There's podcasts for it, there's advertising, there's social, there's what appears on your screen, if you're using an app on mobile or your TV screen when you're using Apple TV, or whatever it might be. So, you have to think through every new multimedia and interactive experience and what's not only going to look good, but what's going to work well, for viewers and for customers.

Richard Jennings:

That's where this beautiful thing about communication across the company happens because you really have to understand all different areas and work together. Because as creative people and designers, we are building art with a different set of rules for every medium, you have to understand it. And you have to partner with people to understand what's working and what's not working too. That communication line is extremely important when it comes to design.

Rob Goodman:

Are you thinking about what the next one, two, three years looks like in terms of platforms and programming? Are you thinking about AR, VR, more audio interfaces or do you let the business lead you to where you need to start producing?

Richard Jennings:

It really is about let the business lead us. This company, WarnerMedia, is quite big when it comes to the machine that is for development, and there are different areas that are focused on different aspects of content and delivering content. So really, we follow whatever is new, and we're happy to join in and experiment and that's where we come in to help with the visual. But we definitely allow others to lead.

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Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

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Rob Goodman:

Is it overwhelming at times from a creative perspective to basically have to slice and dice to infinity? Basically, there's key art, and then there's millions of cuts and versions and all of these things or has that just become, "That's part of the process?"

Richard Jennings:

Is a part of the process. As you can see, part of the group that I oversee, production, that's what they're focused on.

Rob Goodman:

And they've operationalized, all of that?

Richard Jennings:

Yes, absolutely. You got to feed the beast. And this is just the natural evolution of this business and what we do and how we deliver, or what we deliver.

Rob Goodman:

Do you ever reflect back on where your career started and think about like, "Okay, I made this one piece, and it goes here and here and now it's just, the world is just so different."

Richard Jennings:

It really is different. And I don't mind dating myself, but you're right about that. Because when I started, it was really just doing a long box that sat in a record store. And then you had to worry about the poster that was up on the wall, or that experience of how someone shopped in the store. But now we're going to everyone, everywhere. You talk about all these other digital assets, but now we're talking streaming and what does that mean, as people are digging into the content on the platform? And what does that visual look like when they first land on it to when they start to dig into the story, and then look at the episodic and ... It goes on and on and on now, with the amount of digital assets we're building.

Richard Jennings:

But that's why I said that, it's now just part of the story. There's still a print aspect that let's [inaudible] print is still there. So, there's still print and you have out of home still there, you have special projects. But yeah, you're right. It is a lot of digital work.

Rob Goodman:

I can tell just from talking to you, which I love speaking to you, Richard, but you have such energy and enthusiasm for your work. And I just want to know, what is it that you love so much about this world of design and creativity? Every morning, what is that breath of air you take in and are excited to get into it?

Richard Jennings:

I got into design very late in my career, and I've always had a passion for it. I made a decision early on to do something that made me happy. And design was something that made me happy every day. I don't find it as a job, I really don't. I love it. I love all aspects of it. I love living and breathing design. I think probably, maybe, my background too of having a little bit of fashion, which really, I'm crazy about and music and having been in the music industry for so long. And now being in this different type of visual entertainment, has just expanded my love for creativity.

Richard Jennings:

The one thing that I do want to share with you and I know, this is maybe a little off mark, but I love telling this story. Because I think it really helps me on a day to day, and this was definitely pre-COVID that I would do this, is that, I read this article, and I'm sorry, I can't tell you the publication or who they were interviewing, but it was a creative director. And they were asking this creative director, what inspired them, or how did they stay inspired? And this person said, "I think we become a creature of habit in life. We do the same thing. We wake up, we do this, we do that. And yeah, sometimes there's a real comfort in that." But he said, what he does differently every day is that he would take a walk, his walk from home to work, he would turn a different corner just to mix it up, but not just to mix it up, but so that he was aware of what was going on around him all the time.

Richard Jennings:

And I think as creative people it's so easy to become numb. You're in this job that you do every day, you turn off the same assets, but this is what I love about key art too is that, you get to really dive into the show and the story and trying to create this visual representation of it that will entice people to want to click on it or watch it or ... I think you can see it is that my mind is constantly thinking, I'm always thinking about creative. I'm always trying to examine what does it mean to tell a story or how you tell a story or .... I just love it. I just absolutely love it. I love it.

Rob Goodman:

What about outside of your work? What do you take in from the world at large that is fueling your creative tank? Books, running, time with friends and family? When you're not on at work, what are you doing that you're like, "This is making me feel good to be alive and give me energy?"

Richard Jennings:

If you would have asked me before COVID, I would have said a regular trip to a department store and walking around and seeing what's new and fashion, would have been the thing that really jazzed me and got me excited. And I'd see somebody walking down the street or in the store with a new color that I haven't seen mixed in a different way would be like, "Oh, my God, that's amazing." I think books are very important, I think belonging to design sites have been incredibly important for me now, being fed design information is like my daily thing, every single morning.

Richard Jennings:

I subscribe to everything I can when it comes to design and I just love feeding through them and looking at them. And I'm not just talking graphic design, fine artists, illustrators, photographers, animators, architects, everything. I just want to see it and get fed that information, so that I can see what's going on in the world and what I take from it and what I like. And I tend to share it too with other people. I have a Slack channel just for that, design inspo, which I'm pretty much the only one who's throwing stuff on there all day. But it's things like that. Fashion to me really speaks to what's going on culturally. I look at it as more than just stuff that people wear, there's a message behind it, from a tennis shoe, come on, let's talk about the craze about tennis shoes and design and all of that. And I find it everywhere I look, everywhere.

Rob Goodman:

That's amazing. I love that you've ported your real world experience pre-COVID, to just ingesting everything digital. And I love that you're just breathing it in from every corner of design and creative, and then I love that you share it with your team. And it's obviously coming through you in your work, but it gets absorbed into you as a person. And then it's going to come out in different ways as you're doing your thing.

Richard Jennings:

And anybody who knows New York or living in a dense city is that space is a premium, but I still love books. I still love ordering books, I love following book designers and the stories that they're telling too as well, I absolutely. I will say, my very number one love is the printed book. Because I love the experience of it. I love the fact that you're holding something and someone has been so thoughtful to entice you with a cover and the experience of holding it and what it means to then flip a page and then go from one page to the next and to see how that has been laid out and thought about. That, to me is amazing. And of course, I'm not talking just word, I'm talking picture books. Those are things I like, magazines. That is another thing too, is that, I have a healthy subscription to magazines, but not on my iPad. It's absolutely the physical magazine that I prefer to have.

Rob Goodman:

Have you gotten to work on some special projects in music and entertainment for a book here and there or a magazine?

Richard Jennings:

I've done more books in my master's studies, because it was such a passion of mine. So I created about four or five books there. But I do have a special project and I can't really talk about it right now. But there is a project that we're working on, I'm putting a book together for a show. It's just like a wrap up of a series. And so, I'm very excited about it. I promise I'll share it with you later-

Rob Goodman:

Amazing.

Richard Jennings:

... and I'll send it to you.

Rob Goodman:

Awesome. I cannot wait for that. There's so many amazing shows and productions on HBO and Warner, having that commemorative behind the scenes or whatever it might be from the casting crew, would be amazing.

Richard Jennings:

When they first came to us to work on it, it was like I had like four shots of espresso. I was just going crazy about it. I was thanking them like, "Oh my god, you don't know how much I love this. This is right in my wheelhouse." Going on and on and on. And someone Slacked me after and said, "Oh my God, your enthusiasm for this project." We were so excited when we got off the call. But I don't know any other way to live my life or deliver the message but the way that I deliver it every day.

Rob Goodman:

Amazing. Yeah. And that energy and that enthusiasm that's so real, that electrifies a room, it electrifies a project. And that fuels creative people, I find in my work. So, how wonderful for the people presenting to get that from you and be like "Yeah, okay, well, this is obviously going to be incredible because Richard's going to make sure of that, we just saw that." So you mentioned your masters. I'm really curious, this took years, obviously you've had an incredible flourishing career, but you wanted to see through getting your master's degree. Can you talk to me a little bit about why that was so important for you?

Richard Jennings:

I'll tell you, the first seed of it happened when I was in the music industry. And when the digital revolution came in. I saw a lot of creative people have to leave the field because they had become obsolete. They no longer knew how to run a program, and they just were not able to be hands on. And they didn't diversify the things that they did, they were really focused on just one aspect of creative. So whether it was like album cover design, then it was only album cover design. And I think that's why I've had this wonderful opportunity at this job to diversify the things that we work on from environmental. I went through the list, but I do that because, I have such a passion to make sure that we have a full slate of how we are sharing the message, right?

Richard Jennings:

Also, as I started to excel in my career, I saw myself getting away from hands on and that frightened me just a little bit. And what I found was, going back to school and getting my masters in graphic design, really challenged me to think outside of the day. And I think probably it fed into this passion that I have. And it was such a wonderful experience. Because not only did I get to think outside of what was right in front of me, but it really made me aware of everything happening around me and the stories that were happening around me. Because going back to school was really looking at design in a completely different way. I think doing your undergrad is one thing, but when you go into your master's, it becomes more theoretical in that you really are trying to find that deeper message and understanding. And that made me think about things in a different way.

Richard Jennings:

And I was able to go back and inspire my team in that same way and say, "Hey, let's think about this in a deeper way than what's just on the surface." And I think that's also why I said to you earlier is that, I always ask the question, why now? And I don't think I was asking that question 10 years ago. It really was just more recent. I really encourage every creative person to do continued learning. Because everything around us is changing at such a rapid pace, that you really got to be at the tip of understanding. And you can't do that without going back and being with like minded people and having these type of conversations and challenges brought on to you.

Rob Goodman:

What an amazing example for somebody at your level and in your career to say, "No, I'm going to keep learning, I'm keep taking classes." I just think that's a wonderful example for you, for your team, for the design community at large that you can be working at the apex in the field, but you got to still stay connected, you have to still be learning and be open to what else is happening out there. Because as you said, that's the whole journey of design. It's all around evolving and staying tapped into where things are going next. And congrats on getting the master's. It's awesome.

Richard Jennings:

Thank you.

Rob Goodman:

Yeah. So I'd love to talk a little bit about your work with Diversify by Design. And I know this is an incredible organization, and I want to hear about it in your own words, what the organization is up to and why you felt now was the right moment for you to get involved and raise your voice.

Richard Jennings:

COVID has been really crazy in people's lives. Yes, I admit that. But it's also given us a pause to think about what we're doing right and how we're spending our time. I have always really been focused on the job more than I have about anything else because it's brought me such fulfillment. It really has. But I was approached by Andrea Pellegrino, at the end of last year with an opportunity to lend my voice to an important initiative. I had to do a lot of soul searching to understand what and if I had anything to offer. I didn't want to join an advisory council to check a box. I wanted to make sure I had something to share, and really talking to her about it, I feel passionate about it. My role is to lend my support throughout the entire ecosystem to break down the racial inequities in the design industry. That opportunity to do that I couldn't pass up.

Richard Jennings:

So, if we talk about the program, the program is definitely about exposure, and it's about providing youth with exposure and access to design. It's about education, making design education assessable and inclusive, it's about experience, providing opportunities that are meaningful and practical, employment, increased representation in hiring of POC candidates, which is hugely important, and empowerment, ensuring designers of color are supported, empowered and encouraged. This journey has just begun. But one thing I believe is, the greatest gift is giving back. When I was in school an instructor said to me, "You can earn every degree you want, you can continue your learnings, but as designers and design community, you have to find a way to give back, right, you have to share it."

Rob Goodman:

On a personal level, this past year has been so challenging for so many people. As you reflect back on what you've gone through professionally and just changes in our everyday lives, do you see changes that you've had, that you think maybe have made you a better leader, or better at your job that maybe wouldn't have existed without the lens of all of this change?

Richard Jennings:

I definitely feel like I've become a little, not even a little, a lot more empathetic. That is a word that has been so important to me lately, because it brings me such joy to see myself like that. I hope that doesn't sound self centered. Because, it's not meant to be, it's just, I'm a lot more understanding of what is going on in other people's lives, personally and professionally, that, what I feel is expected or what I want, isn't as important. At the end of the day, do you know what I mean? I just take a little bit more thought about what my expectations are of others. I'm a little more thoughtful of how I'm approaching people or how I'm living my life and what I'm saying. I know this podcast interview is not about what's going on socially, but how can that not be part of the conversation?

Rob Goodman:

Yes.

Richard Jennings:

And changing who we are and how we think and live our lives. What I realized, which has been sometimes a little bit of a bubble of here's my life, there's more going on in the world that we need to be aware of that we need to be a part of and I think that's also why the need for Diversify by Design. It's like, there's more work that needs to be done. Just because one action happens, or one resolve might have happened, the work is not done. It's just not done. I realized too, that everything that I've done and put in my life with education and having a wonderful career that has evolved, that change is all around us. And it's happening, and we have to embrace it, and we have to find a way to live with it. I used to be scared of that. There was a time that change really feared me long time ago. But change, you have to be ready for it. And you have to be part of the conversation.

Rob Goodman:

Definitely. And I think that empathy is almost like that gateway to change, that gateway to a greater understanding so that you can then forge a new path together. Because if you don't have those receptors open, how can you know what's on the other side? How can you know what the shared challenges are and then work to overcome them?

Richard Jennings:

I don't think we will ever all agree, right?

Rob Goodman:

Sure.

Richard Jennings:

We will never all agree. But if we could just take a moment to understand where the other person is coming from is half the win, right?

Rob Goodman:

Yeah.

Richard Jennings:

And then the other win is actually having a conversation and being okay with having a conversation.

Rob Goodman:

Absolutely. Richard, this was such a pleasure to have you on the show, so much fun.

Richard Jennings:

Thank you.

Rob Goodman:

Close proximity to our coffee chats in New York City-

Richard Jennings:

Yes.

Rob Goodman:

... but I'll take it. Not quite there, but hopefully in the near future we can do that again. But this was wonderful. Thank you so much for joining the show, Richard.

Richard Jennings:

Thank you. Thank you so much for asking me really, it was my pleasure. Thank you.

Rob Goodman:

Thanks so much for listening. And we really hope you enjoyed this episode with Richard Jennings. It was so great to have him on the show to share more of his story. Some of the insights that really stuck with me from this episode are the need for a different set of rules for design across every medium, and how essential it is to have strong partnerships across every line of business to understand those rules and design for it.

Rob Goodman:

Richard is so passionate about continued learning, and he talks about it with his team, and he shares more in our conversation. And he talks about this notion that as the world is rapidly evolving, as the workplace is and as skills are shifting, you have to go back and study and learn and be challenged and take on new avenues for growth, either in school or in your own everyday practices.

Rob Goodman:

And we talked about the power of inclusivity and diversity. And when Richard spoke about that work not being done, that change is happening all around us all the time, and the need to be ready for it, to be open to it and to be a part of that conversation. That clarifying idea that the work never stops is incredibly powerful. You can learn more about Richard in our show notes at wix.com/nowwhat and dive into the world of Diversify by Design at www.dxd.design.

Rob Goodman:

Thanks so much for listening. This is Now What by Wix, the podcast about how technology is changing everything. Now What is hosted and produced by me, Rob Goodman, executive producer for content at Wix, audio engineering and editing is by Brian Paik at Pacific Audio, music is composed and performed by Kimo Muraki, our executive producers from Wix are Susan Kaplow, Shani Moore, Omer Shai, and me Rob Goodman. You can discover more about the show and our guests at wix.com/nowwhat. Be sure to subscribe and follow the show for new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share this show with your friends and colleagues. We'll see you soon.